'Rebel Ridge' serves up revenge with restraint

Aaron Pierre in Rebel Ridge.

Allyson Rigg / Netflix

In Netflix's new film Rebel Ridge, Aaron Pierre plays Terry, a young Black man who enters a small Southern town to post bail for his cousin. But when the local cops seize his money, he faces off against the corrupt chief of police (Don Johnson). Things escalate, and soon he uncovers a sinister conspiracy that threatens his life.

Transcript

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

GLEN WELDON, HOST:

Tell your friends - Netflix has a new film that kicks all kinds of butt. What's it about, you ask? Civil asset forfeiture, baby - in "Rebel Ridge," a young Black man enters a small Southern town to post bail for his cousin. But when the local cops seize his money, he faces off against the corrupt chief of police. Things, as you might imagine, escalate, and soon, he uncovers a sinister conspiracy that threatens his life. But don't worry, our hero possesses a very particular set of skills.

I'm Glen Weldon, and today we're talking about "Rebel Ridge," the movie that kicks assets, on POP CULTURE HAPPY HOUR from NPR.

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WELDON: Joining me today is NPR producer Marc Rivers. Hey, Marc. Welcome back.

MARC RIVERS, BYLINE: Hey, Glen. Good to see you.

WELDON: Also with us is Chris, always does a bit when he's introduced, Klimek. He's a writer and host of the Smithsonian Magazine podcast "There's More To That." Hey, Chris.

CHRIS KLIMEK: Hey, Glen. You know, I've never told you that Chris is not an abbreviation but an acronym, and you just pray I never have to tell you what C-H-R-I-S...

WELDON: Here we go.

KLIMEK: ...Stands for, buddy.

WELDON: Predictable as the night follows the day - in "Rebel Ridge," Terry, a young Black man, tries to post bail for his cousin in the small town of Shelby Springs. Terry is played by Aaron Pierre. But cops confiscate his cash, including his life savings. And when he protests, the local chief of police, played by Don Johnson, takes steps that endanger his cousin's life.

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DON JOHNSON: (As Chief Sandy Burnne) It wasn't the offer you made. It's the fact that you thought you were entitled to make one.

AARON PIERRE: (As Terry Richmond) Well, my intentions weren't to offend.

JOHNSON: (As Chief Sandy Burnne) Straight to hell with your intentions.

WELDON: A sympathetic court clerk named Summer tries to help only to get drawn into the chief's vendetta against Terry and the conspiracy the chief is trying to cover up. Summer is played by AnnaSophia Robb. "Rebel Ridge" is written and directed by Jeremy Saulnier, whose previous films, "Blue Ruin" and "Green Room," share this film's arthouse meets action movie vibe. "Rebel Ridge" is streaming now on Netflix. Chris, kick us off. What'd you think?

KLIMEK: I liked this movie a lot. This is exactly what I crave. This is a very restrained, human-scale, kind of high-stakes but really low-stakes action movie. It does recall "First Blood," the first "Rambo" movie, very strongly. And in the same way that that movie is sort of animated by this general, like, oh, we've really mistreated our Vietnam veterans kind of conceit, this one uses civil asset forfeiture and also racial bias in policing as kind of the hot-button wave that it's riding.

But there's not a lot of physical action in this movie, in a way that I really liked. It is very restrained. There are only a few physical confrontations. It's a slow burn with a real mystery behind it. And it has a terrific leading man in Aaron Pierre, who I had seen before in "The Underground Railroad." I thought he was fantastic. I think a man-with-no-name-type film like this benefits from an actor we've seen less of.

WELDON: Interesting.

KLIMEK: So the fact that I did not bring a lot of prior baggage with this performer into this role contributed to me investing in him. I really, really dug it.

WELDON: OK. Marc, what about you?

RIVERS: Yeah, you know, I've gone to the theater a lot this year so far, where I wonder, based on levels of directing or writing or acting...

WELDON: OK.

RIVERS: ...Does this person know what they're doing? Or a movie starts out strong and then kind of quickly just loses it along the way. With this movie, and with Jeremy Saulnier in - work in particular, you can tell, at bottom, this person knows what they're doing...

WELDON: Yeah.

RIVERS: ...Like, as far as setup, as far as how to build and maintain suspense, what the objective is, why this person is here, the way power shifts.

KLIMEK: Yeah.

RIVERS: I really enjoyed it. As, you know, Chris mentioned "The Underground Railroad" and Aaron Pierre in that, I think Pierre comes kind of fully formed here as this really strong and a great kind of action hero. I was involved all the way through. The movie is very political, but it doesn't feel too didactic, necessarily, or it doesn't feel too preachy.

WELDON: Sure.

RIVERS: It kind of - I think it kind of comes pretty organically...

KLIMEK: Yeah.

WELDON: ...Enough for a movie like this, for a kind of B-level movie. It comes organically enough out of the story, where you may not be surprised by the politics, but you're kind of nodding. Like, this makes sense. I'm tracking this. I'm following this.

KLIMEK: It's political, but it's not polemical.

WELDON: Right. There you go.

RIVERS: Exactly. Exactly. Even while it's a B movie, the action is not necessarily absurd. Like, in a lot of the choreography in scenes, you can kind of imagine that a person with this particular set of skills might be able to do this in real life.

WELDON: Exactly.

RIVERS: And, like, there's nothing that took me too far out of the movie where I thought, oh, this is, like, Michael Bay at work or something. Like, it felt grounded for a movie like this. There are a lot of things to discuss with this movie, but I think it's very well made.

WELDON: Yeah, that's what I kept coming back to, too. I mean, well-made but also efficient - I mean, it's - as you guys mentioned, it's slow burn. It sets the stakes. It raises the stakes. It constructs the house of card, and then it knocks it over. And - but that's all this movie does, right? It knocks it over. It doesn't knock it over, douse it in acid, set it on fire...

RIVERS: Yeah.

WELDON: ...And salt the earth. This is a pulpy film, a wronged-man-gets-payback flick. But like Saulnier's previous work, it's - you know, it's more grounded. It's thinkier (ph). It's headier. He's not Rambo. He's not even Reacher. He's just a guy.

KLIMEK: He's kind of Reacher. He's a little Reacher, Glen.

WELDON: He's a little Reacher, but he's not...

KLIMEK: This guy - I mean, he's sleeping in the woods. He's carrying his life on his back. He's resolutely not intimidated by cops. He's smarter than everybody. It's kind of "Reacher."

WELDON: Yeah, but Reacher goes harder than this guy goes. And if social media's any indication over the weekend, people who watched this film - many of them were thinking it was going to go harder, especially how angry you get in that opening scene where he's detained by the cops.

RIVERS: Yeah.

WELDON: And spoiler alert - he doesn't take these cops out. He doesn't blow them away. He doesn't get his Steven Seagal on.

RIVERS: I want to get into that too. I mean, you mentioned "Rambo." I think I also thought of movies like "Assault On Precinct 13," you know?

WELDON: Sure.

RIVERS: Like, I think this movie is also in the same lineage as blaxploitation films, in a way. Another title for this movie could be "Trouble Man," you know, the 1972 film. But I think it's illustrative to think about what those movies were doing and what place they took up in the culture. I think "Rebel Ridge" is very much a post-defund the police, post-George Floyd kind of movie. It is very much in conversation with the slogans and activism of that time, in the same way that blaxploitation films were kind of post-Civil Rights era movies, right? And I think both blaxploitation films and this film are kind of about - after the marches have ended, after the laws have been passed or not passed, who has been left behind? What has changed, or what has not changed?

And I think a fundamental difference between the so-called blaxploitation films and something like "Rebel Ridge," it's pretty safe as far as - who's the bad guy? Who's the good guy? That is very clear and is not made complicated. The blaxploitation films - they risked tastelessness. They were genuinely pulpy, and this movie is almost sanitized pulp. You know, it's kind of pulp with kid gloves, you know? It's - the people that this movie is geared towards - they will not disagree with almost anything that happens. They will be outraged when they should be outraged.

WELDON: Yeah.

RIVERS: They will cheer when they should cheer. Maybe I wanted more risk with this movie, or maybe I wanted the movie where the would-be avenging Black man gets to go on a rampage against...

KLIMEK: Yeah.

RIVERS: ...These corrupt cops. Even while he's avenging...

KLIMEK: Yeah.

RIVERS: ...He's on his best behavior here.

KLIMEK: And I mean, there is very much a vibe of, not all cops to this, right? Like, it's very clear this is a...

RIVERS: Sure.

KLIMEK: ...Small subset...

RIVERS: Yeah.

KLIMEK: ...Of crooked cops, and, you know, they're made very distinct from, you know, regular...

RIVERS: The corruption wafting off the screen when Don Johnson is on screen - I had to open my windows.

KLIMEK: I love old Don Johnson.

WELDON: Well, I mean, like, first of all, Saulnier was asked by Polygon how this movie - I think the word was - navigates race. And he gave an answer, and I'm going to read the whole thing. It's a long answer, but I think it's interesting. I'm not sure it's satisfying, but I think it's interesting.

He said, it - meaning race - is definitely there, but as you said, it's not foregrounded. Not because I wanted to shy away from it, but because I wanted to stay true to a certain narrative - cast the best actors and let things play out, and these broader themes come from the audience- because we made a point not to go down that road, especially as it relates to Don Johnson and that character. The primary goal here was to make a traditional American action flick with ideally more artistry, a little headier. I like to get into the very grounded nature, the minutiae other films might pass by as far as institutions go, not just as it relates to race but as it relates to human beings in these systems - what part they play, whether they're aware of it or not, or if they are, how they choose to disavow their responsibility or ignore the fact that they're perpetuating corrupt systems. So those mechanics were easier to research and dissect.

What do you make of that?

RIVERS: I think that it's fair to say, on his account, I think what gets in the way for me is it might just be the sheer scale of the movie. I think for the kind of commentary on institutional corruption or institutional will and power - I think for that to really land for me, I needed a greater sense of the people who actually lived in this town.

KLIMEK: Yeah.

RIVERS: If you had told me that a lot of people in this town were the police...

WELDON: Yeah.

RIVERS: ...That was the extent of the population, I would have believed you. There - like, this movie didn't look cheap, but you do kind of sense the budget he's working with here. As the movie progresses and you're realizing - or - and you kind of realize the full extent of the corruption here in this police department, it doesn't really land for me, I think, due to just how small it feels. I think the movie either warranted a broader scope, or it needed to be narrower and maybe nastier because it reads to me more as kind of well-intentioned politics rather than, like, deep and interrogative politics for me.

KLIMEK: Right. Whereas, I mean, I'm extremely susceptible to this kind of thing, where I feel like the movie has enough on its mind that it gives me permission to enjoy the sort of limited and restrained, you know, vehicular mayhem when it comes.

WELDON: Yeah. There are a few differences between this and other payback films. One of them is how many options it gives him and how many choices he gets. We know that he has the tools to de-escalate. He actually says, you know, I didn't come here to set things right. You know, that's classic refusal of the call. But what those moments - and I kind of like three or four of those moments where he can stop and just go about his business. You know, it would be completely unfair, but he could stop. Because usually, these payback films have a - they're constructed as snowballs rolling downhill. There's this unstoppable momentum so that you, the viewer, don't get time to pull back and think about anything as boring and esoteric as, you know, morality.

KLIMEK: Right.

WELDON: They have to feel visceral. That moment - and all those moments - there's three or four moments when he gets a chance to pull back and question whether or not he should do anything - that saps the momentum. So you've got to do something to lock us back in. And that's what that scene that is in all the trailers where he's on the phone with Don Johnson, and he says, I was thinking we could both walk away. But then I was like, nah.

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PIERRE: (As Terry Richmond) Got me thinking about that conversation we had in the cruiser about de-escalation. That also takes both sides, you know? So I was thinking, what if we just walk away?

JOHNSON: (As Chief Sandy Burnne) Well, now you're starting to talk.

PIERRE: (As Terry Richmond) But then I was like, nah.

WELDON: That's a moment.

RIVERS: Does the movie deliver on that, though? He doesn't go back. He doesn't turn back.

KLIMEK: Yeah.

RIVERS: That line in that movie suggests, you know, here we go.

WELDON: Yeah.

RIVERS: Like, the big payback is coming, you know, James Brown-sized payback.

KLIMEK: (Laughter).

RIVERS: You don't really get that. You know, you're not - you don't quite get that.

WELDON: It is a deliberate choice, though. I mean, like, he has said...

KLIMEK: Yeah.

WELDON: ...He wanted to do something more grounded. This is more grounded, but if it - is it less satisfying?

KLIMEK: It did feel out of character both for that guy and for this movie. I mean, I disagree with Marc a little bit in that, to me, the modesty of the stakes with which it's representing this much larger pervasive problem was an advantage. And the physical altercations actually got a little juice because of what we usually don't see in these kinds of movies, where the first time Aaron Pierre goes up against these two cops, he is going out of his way to exert the minimal amount of force. Like...

RIVERS: Absolutely.

KLIMEK: ...He could clearly kill these guys, and he's taking their pistols away and unloading them rapidly. Clearly, like, he's not breaking any limbs. He's not choking them out. Like, he is just keeping them from shooting him, and that is it. And that scene is actually more exciting to me than if we'd watched the much more common version where he just, you know, obliterates them.

RIVERS: There is a tension to the restraint. It makes me think about, like, if Sidney Poitier ever got, like, an exploitation movie.

KLIMEK: Yeah (laughter).

RIVERS: You know, this might be how he would handle things.

KLIMEK: Have you seen "Buck And The Preacher"? You got to see "Buck And The Preacher," man. That is exactly that movie.

WELDON: (Laughter).

RIVERS: And I do think there is tension in that restraint. I think also it is a political choice. I mean, it's - you know, I think we're talk - what we're talking about here is kind of who gets to go on a rampage in movies, and what does that look like?

KLIMEK: Right.

RIVERS: If we go back to some of those '70s pictures like a "Death Wish" or a "Dirty Harry," where a white man usually...

WELDON: Yeah.

RIVERS: ...Has to go outside the law to set things right, you know, the body counts on those movies are high.

WELDON: Yeah.

RIVERS: And the audiences revel in that high body count here. But it does mean something different for a Black man to - you know, outside of "Django." You know? Like...

KLIMEK: Yeah.

RIVERS: ...It is different for a Black man in 2024 to go on a would-be vengeance path. And what that looks like and what that actually means in this context is very fascinating to me.

WELDON: You know, there's another big difference between this hero, Terry, and other kind of payback movie heroes - is that he needs help. He needs a lot of help.

RIVERS: Yes.

WELDON: He needs help from Summer. He's not a one-man Army corp. He also needs help ultimately from other cops, which, again, that humanizes him at the cost of visceral thrills. Ultimately, that was a payoff, a trade that I was willing to make. But I do see what you both are saying about how the restraint in this movie is a feature and a bug.

KLIMEK: OK.

WELDON: While I like it, I did come away feeling like I wanted to see at least one can of whoop-a** get opened.

RIVERS: Just one full can.

WELDON: Just one full can.

KLIMEK: See, the thing that I thought you would really respond to in this movie, Glen, is its fun spin on the trope of where we get our central bada** resume. You know, this is the, like, wait, the cook is a...

RIVERS: Yeah.

KLIMEK: ...Navy Seal moment. And in this...

WELDON: Yeah, yeah.

KLIMEK: ...Movie, it is stretched out because they're waiting for the Wi-Fi to come back up...

WELDON: Yeah.

KLIMEK: ...Which I loved.

WELDON: That was pretty good. I did enjoy that.

RIVERS: We get one really great to me laugh line from one character searching the kind of credentials of Terry. And that was pretty good. I want to ask you, too, how you guys felt about the ally, Aaron Pierre's main ally in this movie, AnnaSophia Robb, you know, who has to kind of work within the system, essentially. How did she play for you guys?

WELDON: I liked her. As a character, there were certain hurdles that the bad guys had to jump to endanger her that felt a little overly complicated in such a lean movie.

KLIMEK: Yeah.

WELDON: It felt like they were trying to pull him back in - the movie was trying to pull him back in, in a way that felt just a little leaden.

KLIMEK: Yeah. There were a few plot mechanics that left me, you know, like, replaying scenes and things in this. And I'm - Saulnier has such a command of the tone and tension that the seesaw tips in favor of me being like, well, he knows what he's doing. I'm sure I just missed a line or something. It's not that there's any weakness in the script. That's impossible.

WELDON: How about you, Marc? You obviously have thoughts.

RIVERS: Yeah. I mean, I think it's interesting for a movie like this to make the white character kind of the help...

WELDON: Yeah.

RIVERS: ...In this scenario. I think she does a decent enough job of what she has. It does feel like her character is coming out of a miniseries versus Aaron Pierre coming out of, like, an actual movie. I think they tried to kind of flesh her out with having a kid, and there's the kind of - she has a subplot over whether she'll maintain custody. And I think it kind of gestures towards fleshing her out, but there may not have been enough room to make her fully formed. I do think that's interesting to present these two characters in allyship, one working outside the system and kind of one working within the system, and kind of the limitations of both of these characters down these parallel paths.

KLIMEK: Yeah. For a movie that didn't really slow down or feel padded to me, it is interesting that this...

RIVERS: Does not drag - it really doesn't.

KLIMEK: It doesn't.

RIVERS: Yeah.

KLIMEK: But it still runs, you know, two hours and 10 minutes, which is about 30 minutes longer than the prior kind of revenge-driven movies that Saulnier has made, and also just for the genre. You know, like, like 95 to 100 minutes is almost an article of faith for these kinds of films. And this one gives you another half hour without feeling like...

RIVERS: It's still a whole hour shorter than any "Avengers" movie, so I was happy. I was OK with it.

(LAUGHTER)

WELDON: Well, you heard what we think. We want to know what you think about "Rebel Ridge." Plenty of you watched it over the weekend, so you must have thoughts. Find us at facebook.com/pchh. And that brings us to the end of our show. Marc Rivers, Chris Klimek, thank you so much for being here.

RIVERS: Thank you.

KLIMEK: Thank you, Glen.

WELDON: This episode was produced by Hafsa Fathima and edited by Mike Katzif. Our supervising producer is Jessica Reedy, and Hello Come In provides our theme music. Thank you all for listening to POP CULTURE HAPPY HOUR from NPR. I'm Glen Weldon, and we'll see you all tomorrow.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC) Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.