Answering Your Coronavirus Questions: What We've Learned And What's Next
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On this broadcast of The National Conversation, we'll revisit some of your most common questions. We'll also talk about what we've learned about the coronavirus since the pandemic began, and what's likely to come next.
Copyright 2024 NPR. To see more, visit https://www.npr.org.
On this broadcast of The National Conversation, we'll revisit some of your most common questions. We'll also talk about what we've learned about the coronavirus so far, and what's likely to come next.
Transcript
ARI SHAPIRO, HOST:
This is THE NATIONAL CONVERSATION WITH ALL THINGS CONSIDERED. I'm Ari Shapiro.
MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:
And I'm Michel Martin. And we are here for one last time to answer your questions.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCASTS)
REED PETERSON: I live in Bismarck, N.D.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #1: I live in St. Louis, Mo.
LORELEI: Anchorage, Alaska.
HELEN: Winston-Salem, N.C.
KIRK: Tulsa, Okla.
CHRIS: Wyoming.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #2: Chicago.
CAITLIN: Oregon.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #3: Idaho.
LUZ: I'm a residential house cleaner.
BRUCE: I am disabled.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #4: I'm an employee at a grocery store.
SUNIVA: I have a family member who is fighting cancer.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #5: I'm just trying to survive with my sanity intact.
BRUCE: How do I measure the rock and the hard place that I'm struck in here?
JOAN: I'm wondering if you had any advice that you could offer.
LUZ: I can't be the only one in this precarious situation.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #6: Thank you, and so long for now.
SHAPIRO: Once again tonight, we have NPR journalists and outside experts on hand to offer solid facts, tell you what we know and correct some of the misinformation that's floating around. And when we don't know something, we'll tell you that, too. Tonight is the last night of the show - at least for now.
MARTIN: But every night, we begin by answering the question, what happened today?
SHAPIRO: Well, today, the fired Minneapolis police officer at the center of nationwide protests was arrested for the murder of George Floyd. Derek Chauvin, who is white, was arrested and charged with third-degree murder and manslaughter.
MARTIN: Chauvin was seen on video pinning Floyd's neck to the street with his knee while Floyd, who is black, was handcuffed and pleading for his life. Floyd appeared to lose consciousness at the scene and was later pronounced dead at a hospital. U.S. Attorney General William Barr said a federal civil rights investigation is also underway.
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UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS: (Chanting) Say his name. George Floyd. Say his name. George Floyd. Say his name. George Floyd.
MARTIN: Tonight, demonstrators are again protesting the killing in cities across the country, including Minneapolis, and some protests were violent last night. More than a dozen buildings there burned, and police shot rubber bullets and tear gas at protesters.
President Trump posted a message on Twitter early Friday saying that, quote, "when the looting starts, the shooting starts," unquote. The message was flagged by Twitter for glorifying violence. Protester Riley Hanson (ph) blamed the police for the unrest in Minneapolis.
RILEY HANSON: Cops are killing black people in America. And, you know, this is what happens when we reach a certain level of rage, you know, because we're tired of dying.
SHAPIRO: The pandemic has helped fuel this anger and distrust of government, according to former NAACP President Ben Jealous.
BEN JEALOUS: Every time that you see a situation like this - buildings are burning, people are protesting - the spark is always an act of police brutality, but the tinder is always joblessness and housing. And in this COVID crisis, both of those tensions are way up.
MARTIN: The week we began this program, 6.6 million people had filed unemployment claims. Now more than 40 million people have filed for jobless benefits.
SHAPIRO: On March 23, the day THE NATIONAL CONVERSATION debuted, the death toll from COVID-19 in the U.S. was just over 400. Today, the death toll is over 102,000.
MARTIN: NPR science correspondent Jon Hamilton is here with us once again tonight to answer your questions. Jon Hamilton, welcome back.
JON HAMILTON, BYLINE: Thank you.
MARTIN: But before we get started, in recent years, we've seen many instances of police violence where the targets, the victims are disproportionately African Americans. And then we see this terrible disease emerge that is, in this country at least, disproportionately affecting black and brown people. Do you see a connection, because we're certainly hearing from activists and thought leaders who do see a connection? How would you describe this for people who don't see it? How is this connected to race, to racial inequality?
HAMILTON: Well, what we know is that there have been disproportionately more cases, more severe cases and more deaths among African Americans, Hispanic Americans and some Native American populations. But, you know, of course, you know, the virus doesn't know what color a person is, so what we're seeing is really a reflection of entrenched disparities.
For example, you have black and Latino workers who are more likely to be essential workers, which means you can't work from home. You have to go out on the job, where you face a higher risk of being exposed to the virus. Minorities are also more likely to live in larger family groups. And if lots of people are living in the same apartment, for example, it's way easier to get the infection.
And then there's a problem of underlying health conditions. So diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure - these are all more common in minority populations. And that means if someone from one of these groups does get infected, they're more likely to end up in the hospital or even to die. And, of course, because health insurance is less common in these groups, they may delay that trip to the hospital, which can be dangerous.
So you put that all together, and maybe it helps explain some of the statistics we've seen. So for example, there was a study in New York City that found that a COVID patient who was black was twice as likely to die as a COVID patient who was white.
SHAPIRO: Wow. Well, Jon, since this is our last show, at least for a while, and you have answered so many listener questions on this program, we wanted to bring you on to revisit some of the questions that we have learned the most about over the last few months. Way back on April 9, we played this question from John (ph) in Boulder, Colo.
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JOHN: Right now, as we know, most of the world is practicing social distancing to minimize the human-to-human spread of the virus. I'm wondering what happens to the virus after we flatten the curve. Is it still out there?
SHAPIRO: We heard so much early in this epidemic about flattening the curve. So, Jon, where are we in the curve now?
HAMILTON: Yeah, flattening the curve - you know, it was all about slowing down the pandemic. The idea was to reduce the increase in new infections enough so that we didn't overwhelm the health care system. And, of course, in New York, we got a little glimpse of what it looks like when you do overwhelm a health care system and the curve doesn't get flattened. I remember interviewing doctors there who talked about they were trying to find places in the hospital to put all the patients, and they were scrambling to get enough ventilators and PPE and enough staff.
Since then, you know, as a nation, we have flattened the curve to some extent. Hospitals in most places are not overwhelmed. But, of course, that doesn't mean the epidemic is over. You know, lots of people are still getting infected every day. And there is this risk that as we begin reopening the country and we all start mingling, those infections will go up and so the curve is going to get steeper again. And, of course, that's actually happening right now in some areas. I was just looking at a map of coronavirus cases across the country, and you can see that there are these hot spots in Minnesota and Mississippi and Texas.
MARTIN: So, Jon, we've answered a lot of questions on this program about virus transmission. You probably remember some of these, and I'll just play a few.
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TIM: I was curious. As we try to protect ourselves from COVID-19, how many multiple surfaces can the virus be transferred from?
JIM BORDER: I've heard that coronavirus can stay viable on a hard surface for 72 hours.
SARAH WELTON: What should I do about clothing and bedding that might've been exposed to the virus?
BORDER: What about all the paper objects that land in my mailbox each day?
LUCIO: Can COVID-19 survive in the water supply?
JARET: Can I get the corona from handling money?
RUBY: It only makes sense that it could easily be carried on a pet's fur to another person.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #7: How is infected food any safer than an infected hand?
MARTIN: And I just want to say that these questions are a testament to how thoughtful the listeners really have been. But at the beginning of this, we were all struggling to wrap our heads around how the coronavirus spreads and we got an overwhelming number of questions like this about transmission on specific surfaces. So, Jon, what's the latest thinking on how the coronavirus spreads?
HAMILTON: Well, the thinking has evolved a bit. I mean, it is true the virus does survive on different surfaces and can be for hours or even days. And it's different for every surface. You know, cardboard is not like steel or plastic bottles in the grocery store. They all have their own thing. And, yes, in theory, you can get infected if, say, someone coughs on a surface and you touch that surface and then, say, touch your mouth. So it is a good idea to wipe down surfaces and wash your hands. And I know some people personally who still wipe down every package they order online when it arrives. But, you know, the CDC has concluded that surfaces are not the main way this virus is spreading. The evidence suggests that most people who get infected got it from direct contact with another person. So just focusing on surfaces probably is not the most effective strategy.
SHAPIRO: You know, Jon, one area where we have seen so much change in the guidance from experts is masks. Just over the last 90 days, it seems that the guidance has turned 180 degrees. I mean, here's a question that we answered on April 6 from Phil (ph) in Providence, R.I.
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PHIL: So my question is regarding whether or not are we supposed to be wearing masks. First we're being told we should only be wearing masks if we're showing symptoms or if we're sick. Then we're being told that we should be wearing masks all the time, regardless. And now we're supposed to be making our own masks at home. I'm really confused and lost.
SHAPIRO: So that was the beginning of April. Jon, as of today, what's our best understanding of how masks affect the spread of the coronavirus and when people should be wearing them?
HAMILTON: Well, of course, you know, for a long time, the discussion about masks and, for that matter, other PPE was sort of availability. And so hospitals weren't getting enough. And things are certainly better on that front. We're not hearing about the sort of dire shortages and that sort of thing. And that's because a couple of things have happened. One is demand has gone down a little bit, at least at hospitals, because of social distancing, fewer infections, and production has ramped up. So one problem early on with, say, N95 medical masks is that these masks are made in China, and the supply chain was disrupted. So U.S. manufacturers started ramping up. And there's even a company in Utah that used to make boat covers, you know, that switched to making medical masks. Of course, that doesn't mean that, say, N95 masks are easy to find in any drugstore. But, you know, things are better than they used to be.
MARTIN: So, Jon, I hope you don't mind if I ask. Finally, as a science reporter, can you just tell us a little bit about what it's been like reporting on coronavirus day in and day out?
HAMILTON: I have covered a lot of grief, and that's always hard. I have also had a chance to talk to a lot of people who represent what I would call the very best of us. So I'm thinking about - there's an infectious disease doctor in Seattle. His name is Seth Cohen. And he set up the first drive-through coronavirus testing station in a parking lot - very inventive. And there were these scientists whose lab found the nation's first coronavirus patient because they'd been borrowing samples from a flu study. And I must've talked to a dozen different intensive care doctors who went to work every day knowing they might get infected no matter how careful they were. So how would I describe it? I mean, I guess I'd call it an honor.
MARTIN: That is NPR science correspondent Jon Hamilton. Jon, thank you so much. It's been an honor working with you on this. Thank you.
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SHAPIRO: You're listening to THE NATIONAL CONVERSATION WITH ALL THINGS CONSIDERED from NPR News.
This is THE NATIONAL CONVERSATION WITH ALL THINGS CONSIDERED. I'm Ari Shapiro.
MARTIN: And I'm Michel Martin. Over the past 10 weeks, we posed your questions to some of this country's foremost health care officials, ER doctors, epidemiologists and disease prevention experts.
SHAPIRO: We want to say how grateful we are to all of them for taking the time each night, no matter how busy they were, to get our listeners some solid answers. So on behalf of THE NATIONAL CONVERSATION, thank you.
MARTIN: Yet one expert has gone above and beyond, making sure we all get this good info. His name...
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MARTIN: Dr. Ashish Jha.
SHAPIRO: Dr. Ashish Jha, once again.
MARTIN: Dr. Ashish Jha.
SHAPIRO: We have Dr. Ashish Jha.
MARTIN: Dr. Ashish Jha is the director for Harvard's...
SHAPIRO: Global Health Institute. Good to have you back.
ASHISH JHA: Thank you for having me back.
MARTIN: Dr. Jha, welcome. Thank you so much for taking the time.
JHA: Thanks so much for having me. I always enjoy being here.
MARTIN: And can I just ask, how are you doing?
JHA: I'm doing well. Thank you. How are you, Michel?
MARTIN: Better now that I'm talking to you, so thank you.
SHAPIRO: In fact, Dr. Jha in just 10 weeks has answered 34 different questions from people in 19 states and Guam on subjects as different as...
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RITA: When does the impact of these social distancing measures start to outweigh the impact of coronavirus?
MARTIN: And this.
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PAMELA: Why can't protective equipment like N95 masks and gowns be washed in soap and water, like our hands, and reused?
SHAPIRO: Even this.
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MARTIN: Doctor, what do you say - Frisbee catch, yes, Ultimate Frisbee, no?
SHAPIRO: All right. One last time, Dr. Ashish Jha, welcome back to THE NATIONAL CONVERSATION. And thank you for all your wisdom and knowledge.
JHA: Oh, thank you for having me back. That was delightful. That was very nice.
SHAPIRO: (Laughter) We can't let you go without asking you to answer some more questions. And this time, you might actually recognize the people asking.
JHA: All right. I'm looking forward to it.
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MAYA: My name's Maya (ph). My question for Papa is, will camp be open this summer?
ROHAN: My name is Rohan (ph). My question for Papa is, will we be able to go on vacation over the summer?
NISHA: My name is Nisha (ph). Are schools going to be open next year?
DEBRA: My name's Debra (ph), and I just want to thank my husband for all of his hard work. And we love you. And we will see you soon.
ROHAN: Can we get another dog?
(LAUGHTER)
SHAPIRO: Dr. Jha, your children and your wife seem absolutely lovely. And they posed some really good questions, you know?
JHA: They are. They - yeah.
SHAPIRO: Summer vacation, summer camp, back to school - what can you tell your children?
JHA: Well, it's not the first time I've heard them ask. But I can tell you - and this - these - all of these questions are obviously on everybody's minds right now. So summer camps - I've actually been on the side of pushing camps to try to open up this summer and try to run if they can. They've got to be in a place where there aren't large outbreaks happening. That'll make it much, much easier. But the reason I'm enthusiastic about summer camps is 'cause I see them as a dry run for schools. You know, there's a lot we don't know about how much kids transmit the disease to each other, and we can learn by trying out summer camps.
So moving on to vacations, you know, vacations are always great, especially with my family. And I - you know, the issue in my mind is air travel. Planes themselves I think are pretty safe. But going to the airport, interacting with a lot of people - I think, again, it'll depend a lot on where you are and where you're flying to and what the kind of disease outbreak level in that community looks like. If there's not much happening, not many cases, it's probably safe to do air travel. Otherwise, I'd worry more. And, obviously, vacations are great, especially if you're going to be outside in the outdoors with your family. Those are good things to do. And so I think we're going to try to figure out what we can do ourselves.
You know, the...
MARTIN: But as a - Dr. Jha...
JHA: Yeah.
MARTIN: ...As a hard-nosed investigative reporter, I have to press the question, what about the dog? Any chance for another dog?
SHAPIRO: (Laughter).
JHA: Another dog? No, no, no, no, no, no. That - there is broad medical consensus that's a bad idea.
(LAUGHTER)
MARTIN: We're going to have to second-source. OK. All right. So do you have space for some other questions?
JHA: I do.
MARTIN: All right. This is from Claire (ph) in Wisconsin.
CLAIRE: I'm thinking of those dozen or so sailors on the USS Roosevelt who got COVID twice. And what does that mean? Do we know more about that? Are we all able to get infected twice? Thank you very much for all your hard work, NPR. I love you.
MARTIN: Well, thank you, Claire. We love you, too. But, Dr. Jha, we asked you a similar question about the same topic on the program - actually, the first time. Over the past few weeks, how much have we learned about reinfection?
JHA: Yeah, so I don't - you know, the evidence on this has been evolving, so I don't remember where we were when we discussed it last. But I would say I'm still pretty confident that most people cannot get reinfected more than once. And so those, quote-unquote, "reinfections" we're seeing - there either were people who never cleared the virus or, more likely, the second time around, they were picking up fragments of essentially dead, inactivated virus, and that's why they're testing positive. But I'm pretty confident the data right now tells us most people cannot get reinfected.
SHAPIRO: All right. Our next question comes from a city that had a lot of questions. They were a heavy contributor to this program. From San Francisco...
NICK: Hi. My name is Nick (ph). My question is, once the terror and suffering inflicted by the coronavirus has subsided, is it possible that another future virus could similarly incapacitate the world?
SHAPIRO: Oy. Dr. Jha, what would you say to that possibility?
JHA: So I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but, you know, I think we are entering an age of pandemics. I think we're going to see more of these in the upcoming years and decades. And what we need to do is not be caught flat-footed and, in fact, just be much more effective in our response. And, you know, climate change, globalization - all of those are contributing to larger and larger disease outbreaks, but we can do something about it. And that's what we have to do is we have to prepare.
MARTIN: OK. Let's try to squeeze in one more. This is a question about one strategy that might reduce the spread of COVID-19.
NEIL: Hey. I'm Neil (ph). I'm calling from Seattle, Wash. I've been thinking, with the need to expand contact tracing for COVID-19, how could we be more prepared as a nation to respond to pandemics in the future? And I'm wondering how we might benefit from a more robust contact tracing system that we have all the time. For example, how much would the U.S. save by preventing the spread of the flu? Would it be worth having this capability in an ongoing basis rather than just ramping up only after a disease has had a negative impact?
MARTIN: Dr. Jha, what do you think?
JHA: It's a great question. I think the short answer is, yes, I do think we'd benefit. You know, we have been making cuts to public health left and right for years, and we are paying for it. We have a very small contact tracing force right now, obviously inadequate for disease breaks - outbreaks like this. I mean, if we made that a more regular investment, we could be much better prepared for the next pandemic, which will surely come at some point down the road.
SHAPIRO: And, finally, Dr. Jha, Carlos Luna (ph) asks how much testing we are going to need to go back to what people have been calling the new normal. Just briefly, can you quantify that for us?
JHA: You know, I think the more testing we have, the more of our lives we can get back. And so in my mind, millions of tests today will help us get a semblance of our lives back. And I think we can get there if we focus on it, so.
MARTIN: Well, thank you once again, for all of us here, Dr. Ashish Jha. He's the director of the Global Health Institute at Harvard University. Dr. Jha, thank you again so very much.
JHA: Thank you so much for having me on again.
SHAPIRO: And this is THE NATIONAL CONVERSATION WITH ALL THINGS CONSIDERED from NPR News.
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SHAPIRO: This is THE NATIONAL CONVERSATION WITH ALL THINGS CONSIDERED. I'm Ari Shapiro.
MARTIN: And I'm Michel Martin.
SHAPIRO: Over the course of just a few months, COVID-19 has transformed the American economy. And for our final show, we want to answer your questions about what it might look like going forward.
MARTIN: To help us, we're joined once again by NPR's chief economics correspondent Scott Horsley. Scott, welcome back.
SCOTT HORSLEY, BYLINE: Michel and Ari, it's great to be back with y'all.
MARTIN: Well, it's great to hear from you. And we've been talking during a moment when the inequities experienced by African Americans have surfaced in a powerful way once again. We're watching protests across the country over police and community violence against African Americans. And we already know that COVID-19 has been disproportionately deadly for black people. Can you tell us anything about whether there have been similar economic disparities for African Americans during this period?
HORSLEY: There have been. And in some ways, they are related to those health inequities you talked about. You know, unemployment has gone up dramatically in the last couple of months for all racial groups. For African Americans, the unemployment rate last month was 16.7%. That's higher than the jobless rate for white Americans, 14.2%. I should say, though, the gap between those two groups is actually a little bit smaller than it was back in February before the pandemic took hold. Latinos actually saw the largest spike in unemployment.
But, you know, job loss is just part of the story here. Another piece of it is African Americans who are still working are more likely to be in jobs that they can't do from home. And that means they are out and about, mixing with the public and at greater risk of infection.
SHAPIRO: Scott, we got a message from Toni (ph) in Austin on this topic. Let's listen.
TONI: This pandemic is already impacting marginalized communities unevenly. So now when I think about the near future and about what reopening is going to look like, I'm worried about equality and equity issues that will be harder to overcome.
SHAPIRO: So to that point, Scott, when you look forward at the reopening process, how do you expect minorities to be financially affected?
HORSLEY: I think Toni's got a very valid concern. You know, the economic downturn has affected all Americans but especially those on the lower rungs of the income and education ladders. That is true in every recession, but it's especially the case this time around because the kind of jobs that are most at risk during this pandemic are low-paying service jobs. And they are disproportionately held by black and brown people.
This is especially sad because, you know, we were - finally, after a decade of economic growth, we were finally starting to see some gains among those low-wage workers. The very, very low unemployment rate we were enjoying before this pandemic hit was the best thing that had happened to workers' bargaining power in a long time. And, unfortunately, that bargaining power for workers has largely evaporated now that we have tens of millions of people out of work. And it's, unfortunately, going to take a long time to get that back.
MARTIN: Ari and I were talking before the program started about how much we've enjoyed checking in with people and hearing from people, really, all across the country over these last couple of months. So we wanted to check back in with a few guests that we've had on the program to hear how their experience has changed over the months of this pandemic.
Opal Foster is a graphic designer. She's not employed at the moment. We spoke to her a couple of times during the show's run. And she's had a really hard time getting unemployment. And this is the update she sent us now.
OPAL FOSTER: I started getting unemployment. I am still in the process of trying to get health insurance, which it's been a few hurdles to jump through. I am currently looking for a job. I was kind of hopeful that my job would call me back. It's been two months, so I don't know if they're in a position to call me back. Lessons learned during this time are to make the most out of less (laughter), to kind of appreciate your family and the quiet time that you have with them. We're OK, but long-term, I don't know how long this is sustainable.
MARTIN: And Opal also sent a question for you, Scott, so we'll play it for you.
FOSTER: How do we rebound with so many people on unemployment? And how do we get those people, like myself, working again?
HORSLEY: Yeah. Well, I'm glad to hear Opal's finally able to receive unemployment insurance. That's important. You know, ultimately, a big part of what drives this economy and jobs is consumer spending. We found out today that in April, consumer spending tumbled by the largest amount on record. And for a while, that was OK because we wanted people to stay home. We didn't want them out spending money and maybe spreading the virus. But at some point, we do need people to start spending again. That means they have to have money in their pockets.
The government has been sending out a lot of money, both in extra unemployment benefits and those $1,200 relief payments. In April, those government benefits actually more than made up for the wages that Americans had lost on the whole. It will be interesting to see - because the benefits in some cases are going to run out in a few months - will Congress decide to extend them?
And then the other question is, you know, with people have money in their pockets and stores and restaurants are reopening, are they going to feel safe going out and spending money - getting on airplanes, going to movie theaters? Some people will feel safe right away. Others will be tiptoeing with precautions. And still others won't be safe - won't feel safe until we have a vaccine. So that's what it's going to take to get the economy going again.
SHAPIRO: We wanted to check in with a couple of business owners who we've had on the program before who are navigating this pandemic. And so we've called Lyn Stout, owner of Bond Events in Virginia. Good to have you back on the program.
LYN STOUT: Hi. Nice to be back.
SHAPIRO: And Chris Escobar owns the Plaza Theatre in Atlanta. Nice to have you back as well.
CHRIS ESCOBAR: Thanks for having me.
SHAPIRO: There's a bit of an echo I'm hearing, but, Lyn, if you could just tell us - you're in the events business. Last time we talked almost two months ago, everything in your industry was basically on hold. How are you getting by now?
STOUT: Well, we've had an interesting sort of run of it. We - when I last spoke to you, we had lost everything for the entire year. Immediately after that, we sort of put our heads down with our tech team and got to work, and we've actually built an online portal - what we wanted to see our online events look like. We've reached back out to all of our clients, and we're working again.
So it's certainly not the same. The volume's not the same. The pricing's not the same. But the team is intact for the most part, and we're doing events again. So it looks very different, but at least there's a path forward.
MARTIN: So, Chris, let's hear from you. You're in Georgia. That's a state that reopened very early on. But you also depend on big gatherings of people for your business. We last spoke just as Georgia began opening up. How are things? Are you anywhere close to business as usual, getting back to that?
ESCOBAR: Not exactly. In fact, it's very business unusual. And what I mean by that is we are showing movies, but not in our theater. We've actually pivoted to a full-on drive-in, which is very different.
SHAPIRO: And what's the response to that been like?
ESCOBAR: It's been amazing from the community. We're having shows sell out sometimes in just minutes. The weather, on the other hand, has not always cooperated (laughter). It can be a little unpredictable.
The challenges we're having is, you know, it's not realistic from just a bandwidth standpoint for us to operate seven days a week like we normally have. We're also dependent on something out of our control - darkness, which is in short supply in the summer. And so we're limited both by the number of hours we can operate, the number of days we can operate and then, you know, weather and things like that.
So, I mean, it's a tremendous response from the community and the public, but I would say we're probably operating at about 20% revenue. And yet, because of the amount of people it takes, I have to have actually twice the amount of staff at any given time. So it's...
SHAPIRO: Wow.
ESCOBAR: ...A squeeze, for sure.
SHAPIRO: Sounds like some improvement but still some big challenges. We'd like you both to stay with us, Lyn Stout and Chris Escobar. Lyn is the owner of Bond Events in Virginia. Chris owns the Plaza Theatre in Atlanta. We have to take a short break, but we'll be right back in just a moment.
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SHAPIRO: Lyn and Chris are still with us. And, Lyn, do you have any questions that you would like to ask our in-house expert Scott Horsley here?
STOUT: Yeah. So, I mean, with all the big businesses these days that are saying that they're going to continue to work remotely, we certainly are thinking the same thing and don't anticipate renewing our office lease because we've worked successfully for the last two months. So my question is, what's the future of cities? Do we think people will stay, or are - is everybody going to abandon for the suburbs?
HORSLEY: You know, it's a good question. This is something my colleagues and I have been talking a lot about, we've been asking a lot of smart people about. The short answer, of course, is nobody knows, but there's certainly a lot of speculation out there. What will offices look like? Will people go back to offices at all now that they've demonstrated that they can work from home? You know, will the lights ever blaze over Broadway again? Undoubtedly, there are going to be changes. I mean, commercial real estate, especially in expensive cities, is going to have somewhat less of a premium now.
I do have to say, though - and this is partly just my own gut and also having, you know, lived through past periods when there were bold predictions that didn't necessarily materialize - I don't think this is going to completely redraw the map of the U.S. economy. I mean, I suspect at some point in the not-too-distant future, a lot of people will still see value in gathering together in person, not by Zoom call, with co-workers and friends and even complete strangers, both for business and for pleasure. I do think...
MARTIN: Chris, what about you? Oh, sorry.
HORSLEY: ...You know, Chris...
MARTIN: Go ahead.
HORSLEY: Chris and Lyn, though, are just an instructive example here, though, of just how, you know, creative and innovative and resilient the American business community is. And that's one reason for optimism.
MARTIN: Chris, do you have a question for Scott?
ESCOBAR: Yeah. I'm curious. You know, we're looking at guidelines and how - what reopening looks like, and I'm looking into things like UVC lights and things like that, not just to be installed for surface contact, but also, you know, what - how necessary is it to install that in our HVAC systems and things like that. Like, we're trying to reimagine what reopening looks like and what we need to start putting in place.
HORSLEY: Yeah (laughter). NPR's discussing those things, too (laughter). And do you feel, Chris, like you're getting good guidance from the experts at OSHA or the CDC? I mean, or are you kind of having to wing it?
ESCOBAR: I think it's a little bit of both. I understand the scientific community is hesitant to say specificity when there is no data to back (unintelligible). And that's the problem is, obviously, the lack of availability. Like, for instance, the 6-foot thing - I mean, we were going, OK, we can close every other row, and that's 6 feet apart, and that's great. But now I'm hearing 6 feet may not be enough, and especially if we're talking about an indoor space for - you know, where people are amongst other, you know, folks for two hours at a time. So I feel like I really want some clarity or guidance or, you know, at least to know what I don't know for sure versus when I might know it.
HORSLEY: Yeah. I hear that same thing from a lot of businesspeople. You're in good company. Good luck.
MARTIN: Well, it's been great visiting with both of you. Chris Escobar owns the Plaza Theatre in Atlanta. Lyn Stout is the owner of Bond Events in Virginia. Good luck to you both. Keep in touch. And thanks so much for talking to us.
STOUT: Thanks, Michel.
ESCOBAR: Thanks so much.
SHAPIRO: We've also had NPR's chief economics correspondent, Scott Horsley, who has been with us many evenings through these last three months. Scott, thank you for bringing this wisdom and answering all of these listeners' questions for us over these last 10 weeks.
HORSLEY: You know, we had the best listeners. They asked the best questions, so it's been a lot of fun.
SHAPIRO: I agree. Up next, we look back at some of the most important things we've learned since this show began. Stay with us.
(SOUNDBITE OF A TRIBE CALLED QUEST SONG, "LUCK OF LUCIEN")
SHAPIRO: This is THE NATIONAL CONVERSATION WITH ALL THINGS CONSIDERED from NPR News.
MARTIN: This is THE NATIONAL CONVERSATION WITH ALL THINGS CONSIDERED. I'm Michel Martin.
SHAPIRO: And I'm Ari Shapiro.
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UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #8: I'm sorry to hear that you're going to be closing up soon. It's been a great run. Thank you so much.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #9: What we can do to help you guys to stay on?
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #10: I run home to listen to your program.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #11: It's so comfortable to hear your voice.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #12: I so appreciate you all taking all these questions, getting us answers. Like, information is such a comfort.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #13: I'm going to really miss that show. That has been such a help to me personally. I thank you, thank you, thank you for your work.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #11: I'm positive that (ph) all of you get to return to your normal life, but I'm really going to miss the program.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #13: So I'm hoping you'll bring it back because it's very helpful and there's really no place else that I know to go to get answers to questions about what's going on in this coronavirus environment.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #14: Thanks again for a great show and for giving me hope. Namaste.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #8: Goodbye now.
MARTIN: We have received thousands - literally - of questions on the show from you, and one of the things that's been fascinating is that there are some questions that we got over and over and over again.
SHAPIRO: And so we wanted to go back to those questions that keep coming up. And one of them is about the role for homemade, hand-sewn masks. And way back in March, Dr. Anne Rimoin, an epidemiologist at UCLA, got out ahead of the CDC's guidance to wear them.
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ANNE RIMOIN: These masks can play a very important role - nonsurgical masks. Leave the surgical masks and the N95s for health care workers.
SHAPIRO: And if you've got a sewing machine, it can't hurt to make one from scratch.
RIMOIN: Please make masks and cover your mouth.
MARTIN: We also got a lot of questions in our making choices segments about how to socially distance in person. This was something kids were particularly concerned about, of course.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)
JAMES MATTHEW: If it's not ending anytime soon, is it OK to play with friends?
SHAPIRO: Outside, 6 feet apart, masks on - would you give a green light for that?
CELINE GOUNDER: Yeah, that actually sounds pretty reasonable. I would add to that list making sure you have hand sanitizer everywhere. And, you know, so if somebody touches a, you know, picnic table and somebody else comes by later, you know, that you're hand sanitizing to prevent transmission, you know, on top of wearing the mask. But that seems like a pretty reasonable thing to be doing.
MARTIN: Good but careful news from Dr. Celine Gounder, an epidemiologist and professor at NYU. And it really highlights one of the things we've talked about again and again on this program, the continuum of risk and how many choices people have to wrestle with every day.
SHAPIRO: OK, so here are two more related questions that we got a lot, probably 'cause we're all thinking about summer. First of all, can you get the virus from mosquitoes? And second, can you get it from swimming in the water?
MARTIN: So first, good news. I'm going to quote Dr. Ashish Jha, who we heard from many times, including earlier today, and he said that there are no known cases of blood transmission of the virus and, quote, "I wouldn't worry about mosquitoes at all," unquote.
SHAPIRO: As for swimming, it's a bit more complicated. Here's Dr. Ben Levine, a professor of internal medicine at a University of Texas hospital.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)
BEN LEVINE: Freshwater lakes, salt water in the ocean is great. It's a big open space, and you don't have to worry about the virus living in the water or contaminating it as you swim by. In fact, even chlorine is pretty darn good at killing the virus. The problem with pools isn't the water; it's everything around it.
SHAPIRO: Stuff like the benches, the diving board, the sides of the pool.
MARTIN: He's making that less fun than I had hoped. Anyway, all right, our turn. Host's choice - Ari, what was one of your favorite moments?
SHAPIRO: You know, I'm always going to remember an interview with a 14-year-old named Archit Kalra, whose whole family had gotten sick with COVID-19. His grandfather, tragically, had died. And what amazed me was that even while Archit was dealing with his own grief, he set up a website for other kids to talk about what they were going through.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)
ARCHIT KALRA: We can't have family gatherings. It's so difficult to communicate with people virtually, especially, like, with things such as funerals, it's really difficult. So I just wanted to create a platform for people to share their stories.
SHAPIRO: And, Michel, to me, this just speaks to the selflessness and creativity that we have seen all throughout this pandemic, where people going through the most difficult times of their lives are still thinking of others.
OK, your turn. What about you? What was one of your favorite moments?
MARTIN: Well, I have to say our girl Samin Nosrat...
SHAPIRO: Oh, she's great.
MARTIN: ...Of "Salt, Fat, Acid, Heat" fame.
SHAPIRO: Yeah.
MARTIN: OK, I'll admit it. Ari, I was a little slow to get on the Samin Nosrat bandwagon, but I'm all in because you talked about selflessness and creativity, and she came up with this idea that she wrote about in The New York Times about having a - everybody make lasagna one night. You know, at first, I thought, why? But then, you know, I got into it. And then I started seeing people, you know, all over Twitter and other social media platforms say - making their noodles, making their sauce. And it just turned out to be one of those nice things that we needed. You know, we need some nice things.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)
SAMIN NOSRAT: The act of sharing is so fulfilling and gratifying, and not being able to do that in my house has been really sad. So I think part of it is just honoring that sadness.
SHAPIRO: OK, so those were our host favorites, but we also want to give our staff a chance to talk about what they learned.
MARTIN: So without further ado, here is the staff of THE NATIONAL CONVERSATION and what they learned.
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SURAYA MOHAMED, BYLINE: This is Suraya Mohamed. I learned from Retta to be confident on Zoom, invest in hats and scarves.
MONIKA EVSTATIEVA, BYLINE: Monika Evstatieva. Have a 15-minute designated worry time per day.
DAVE BLANCHARD, BYLINE: This is Dave Blanchard, and my lesson is that if you're not seeing COVID in your community, it's not a sign that it's not widespread, but it might be a sign that it's hitting another community that much harder.
CAROLINE KELLY, BYLINE: Caroline Kelly. I didn't know about travel nurses and the roles they play in underserved communities, but now I do.
TRAVIS LARCHUK, BYLINE: I'm Travis Larchuk, and one thing I learned is that booking a Zoom dentist appointment could actually be helpful. And now my back teeth don't hurt anymore.
MIA VENKAT, BYLINE: Hi. This is Mia Venkat. No matter how badly I want to, it is not worth it for me to cut my own quarantine bangs.
ERIC MARRAPODI, BYLINE: This is Eric Marrapodi. If you think you're prepared, double check and then check again 'cause when it's bad, it can be real bad.
SIMONE POPPERL, BYLINE: This is Simone Popperl. My big takeaway is that while there's a ton that we still don't know about this virus, we know a lot more than we used to even just a few months ago.
MARIYA AMRAYEVA, BYLINE: This is Mariya Amrayeva. I think that expert advice that has aired on this show have helped me to maintain my mental health during quarantine.
LAUREN MIGAKI, BYLINE: Lauren Migaki. If you, like me, are a little anxious about the future, focus on just the next two days.
CLARE LOMBARDO, BYLINE: Clare Lombardo. I learned what pickleball is. Because of social distancing, doubles pickleball probably is not a great idea, but singles pickleball is probably still fine.
BARRIE HARDYMON, BYLINE: Barrie Hardymon. Kids need to be social even in quarantine, so try the double bubble. Find another family to share your quarantine pod.
ASHLEY WESTERMAN, BYLINE: Ashley Westerman. And the thing that this show has taught me is patience and that it's OK to not know all the answers right now.
JEFF PIERRE, BYLINE: This is Jeff Pierre. And if you ever want to sound really smart, instead of saying you want to wash your hands with soap, say you want to wash your hands with a surfactant.
WYNNE DAVIS, BYLINE: Wynne Davis. We are all working from home right now, and you are not expected to be as productive as you would be if you were in the office. So give yourself a break. And don't look at your day in terms of what you didn't get done, but look at what you did get done and count your wins.
WILL JARVIS, BYLINE: Will Jarvis. The best advice came from Chef Samin Nosrat. There is no shame in eating breakfast for dinner.
NEIL TEVAULT, BYLINE: This is your technical director Neil Tevault, and I learned that Ari Shapiro has a wheelhouse, and we've all been living in it.
DALIA MORTADA, BYLINE: Dalia Mortada. I've learned that we better get creative socializing while social distancing 'cause we're going to be in this for a while, and we need each other.
SHAPIRO: Also, thanks to our technical directors James Willetts, Natasha Branch and Peter Elena (ph), engineering help from Tom Markito (ph). And an extra special thanks to reporters and editors on NPR's science and business desks.
MARTIN: Finally, thanks to Sarah Gilbert, Nancy Barnes and John Lansing. I'm Michel Martin.
SHAPIRO: And I'm Ari Shapiro. And this is THE NATIONAL CONVERSATION WITH ALL THINGS CONSIDERED from NPR News. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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